Dropouts, Function and Style

OK, so I've tried to explain my dropout design from a strength and durability standpoint, but now I'd like to focus on the aesthetics and functionality of them as well.

My first go at the design was a completely hand cut set of dropouts for my 2006 NAHBS Waterford. I picked up some stainless plate and had at it with a combination of drill bits, a die grinder and dynafile. Very cool looking in the end, but WAY too much work. I knew when I started Ellis that I'd need to get these into a CAD program and find someone to cut them for me.

My original design, featured on my 2006 Waterford for NAHBS.

Well, about the time I was getting Ellis Cycles off the ground, my friend Scott offered to do the CAD work to get the process started. Honestly, I hadn't really expected to take on my own dropout design for at least a year or so, but Scott was super helpful and connected me with a shop that would cut very limited quantities, so I wouldn't have to order 100 pairs at a time!

When it came to the design, I had some criteria in mind.

1. It had to work with large diameter 953 chain stays.

2. I choose stainless steel since I planned to offer fully polished stainless rear triangles.

3. It needed to work with a wide range of chain stay/ seat stay angles, from the smallest to largest frames.

One of the cool features my dropouts allow me to feature is internal cable routing, whether it be Di2 wiring, (above) or a derailleur cable.

Ellis dropout brazed to a 953 chain stay.

Some folks might know this, but for those who don't, the minor end of a chain stay can vary in diameter from around 12mm to as much as 17mm. Above is a good example of the larger stay, which mates well with the wide tab on my Ellis dropouts. On smaller stays, I'll often cut the minor end of the stay back to give me some extra width for attaching the dropout.

Another of my pet peeves is dropouts on really small or large bikes that end up looking dog-legged. In other words, the tab of the dropout extends in some angle, say 70 degrees, and then the stays get attached at an angle like 60 degrees for a small frame. I'm sure that it's plenty strong, but it's just plain ugly. What the seat stay tabs on my dropouts allow me to do is to shape the dropout to match this angle. Below you can see examples of both a really small frame (Sydney's), which has a angle of 65 degrees, and Steve's frame, which is pretty large with an angle of 77 degrees.

On both of these, I carefully scallop the stay and locate it on the dropout to make it as seamless a connection as possible.

This last feature is one that just happened kinda organically on one of the first bikes I built with the Ellis dropouts. I had a fairly large chunk of tab that I needed to finish down on the bottom of the chain stay when I realized, if I leave this a bit proud of the stay and then have Jason mask off the paint, it makes a nice landing spot for the rear axle with no chance of chipping the paint off the dropout or chain stay. Once again, the fact that these dropouts are stainless came in handy as well!

All the Ellis dropouts get this "sliver" polished and masked off to protect the rest of the paint.

That's all for now, my next post will discuss the lugs I prefer and why.

Cheers,

Dave

Ellis Dropouts / Strength

I got an email about a month ago from a gentleman who complimented me very nicely on my frames and then informed me that according to his friend, all my dropouts were going to break... He explained that his friend had seen dropouts from another well-known builder break, and since my dropouts bear some vague aesthetic similarity to them, mine must be doomed to the same fate.

Well, this got me thinking, I don't have any doubts in the strength of my Ellis dropouts, I work with them every day, but how could I explain how mine are different than the (dozens?) or other poorly designed or assembled dropouts that exist in the frame building world and that might break at some point down the road?

The first set of Ellis dropouts.

First, let me say that in my 14 years or so of building frames at Serotta, Waterford, and now Ellis, I've seen my share of broken dropouts. I'd say that 75% of those were the result of just one thing; folks flexing their frame open to fit a wider spaced wheel. I know what you think; it's just a few mm's, what's the difference? When the stays get flexed open, two things happen, firstly, there's a built in "tension" that the rear end parts are constantly under, and the dropout faces are no longer parallel with each other. Then you clamp your wheel in and the dropouts flex just slightly back to parallel now that they are under the tension of the quick release, all is well, right? Well, not really, now as you're out riding, the frame has this built in tension that it's trying to relieve. You hit a pothole, ride over some nasty chip seal, and all the while it's slowly working on a way to relieve this stress. What eventually happens is this, either the chain stay breaks just in front of the drive side dropout, or the dropout tab breaks, and the tension is relieved!

So, that takes care of roughly 75% of the dropout breakage, how about the other 25%? I would guess that a good chunk of these happen because the dropout faces of the frame are never properly aligned when the frame is built, essentially following the same scenario I describe above. The rest of the breakage is probably due to poor brazing, crashes, dropout design, and finally a tiny percentage to corrosion.

A drive side Ellis dropout brazed into a 953 chain stay

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OK, so if we agree that dropout alignment is key to their longevity, how do I make sure that my Ellis dropouts are aligned? Well, it's a struggle, because my dropouts are cut from 17/4 stainless steel, they are incredibly tough, and hard to bend. I need to check and re-check their alignment throughout the build process to make sure they are straight and stay that way. To start, I pre-bend the dropout tabs in a vise and dry fit all the dropouts and chain stays in the fixture before any heat even touches them. Once I've brazed the dropouts into the chain stays, I recheck again on the fixture to make sure everything is still lined up. The dropouts get checked once again after the frame is brazed and aligned, and then a final time right before the frame heads off to paint.

I can't speak for other builders and their procedures, but I'm confident that when you receive your Ellis, the dropouts will be straight and stay that way for a long, long time!

The finished product, elegant and strong!

I'll post more soon about why Ellis dropouts are shaped this way, and some other cool features I've designed into them.

Cheers,

Dave

New Bikes, New Blog Format

I finished up two frames today, Pete's and Hans'. They'll be off to paint soon, but you can see pics of both builds on my Picasa page here; https://picasaweb.google.com/home.

I also thought it was about time that I change things up on the blog a bit, hence the new layout. In the upcoming days, I hope to try some different content than my regular build posts, I want to try and explain what makes an Ellis... I've been thinking about how to describe this for a while, so bear with me and see what turns up.

I'll still post cool builds too, but I think that alone can become kinda stale.

Cheers,
Dave

NAHBS Bikes!

It's that time of year, the NAHBS's bikes are coming together, and here's a sneak peak at two of them.

Firstly, I've got my 29'er, matte black and silver to match the XTR kit I'll be building it up with.


And Wayne's road frame. A classic road frame that we'll be building up with a Miche Supertype grouppo, wheels and all. To see these parts, check them out here; http://www.miche.it/en/catalogo/catalogo-supertype. They aren't too commonly seen in the States, but they're trying to break into the market here.

I'll post pics of the buildups too, but if you want to see more of these two, you can check them out at my Picasa page; http://picasaweb.google.com/elliscycles

More soon!

Dave

Travis' NAHBS Rando

I've been busily working on bikes for the upcoming NAHBS in Austin, and while I haven't been posting much to the blog, I've got a solution for those of you who want more eye candy!

My Picasa page has a bunch of photos of Travis' rando frame along with a Di2 Dirt Road Bike that I've been working on. Check them out with the attached link, and then you don't have to read my jibber jabber just to look at the cool pictures.

http://picasaweb.google.com/elliscycles

More soon,

Dave

15 Seconds of Fame

The NAHBS website has a newsletter with a quick questionnaire about me/Ellis;

http://us1.campaign-archive.com/?u=16881882afa22bc9d1c997b92&id=6842206687&e=#5

I'll try not to let the fame go to my head!

Cheers,
Dave

55.5 Road Frame Needs a Home!

Thanks to everyone who inquired about this one, it's sold!



I started this frame about a year ago, got the main triangle brazed and then decided to go with a lugged frame for my Di2 bike for NAHBS instead of the combination of fillet and lugs that this bike has.

Well..., the main triangle hung in the shop for the last year, and I recently decided to finish the frame up and see if I could find it a home.

The specs are as follows.

73 head and seat angles
55.5cm top tube
48cm (c-c) seat tube
133mm head tube
41.5cm chainstays.

It's a pretty straight ahead road frame, and I've maximized the bridge and fork length, so 28c tires should be no problem. You'll see that the 25c Vittoria's have tons of space.

More pictures here; http://picasaweb.google.com/elliscycles/Ellis555FilletFrame?authkey=Gv1sRgCIfl5MW0j9PE5wE# Check out the caption for some extra details.

I'm asking $2500 with a single color paint scheme of your choice, (other schemes are fine, with cost TBD). Feel free to email or call me with questions.

Cheers,
Dave
262 442 6639
dave@elliscycles.com